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poor x5c performance,.. how to improve?
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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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September 28, 2015 - 4:59 am
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The new, recently rescued, x5c I'm using had a motor go dead.  I replaced it with a used motor from a previous x5c.  It works okay, but with the FPV kit on it, the thing will barely stay airborne.  With the original cam on it, it flies okay, but not very sprightly.  With the camera and door removed, there is a slight improvement.  Last week the performance was a lot better, but still not hugely impressive.

Is there a common mod or hack or something to do to the x5c to get it to have more thrust?

What about the mudder motors advertised as being a large improvement?

What about the 3-bladed props that claim the same thing?

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Syma Freak
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September 29, 2015 - 8:36 pm
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Hi Gyrobob,

Not trying to be negative here but have built a few quads now, you can not make a simple quad with brushed motors to expect to carry lots of weight, you would be better off thinking about a quad that has brushless motors, bigger battery power, to me works out cheaper and less time spent trying to mod a simple quad to be a machine-again I have done that.

There is in the Syma range the X5SW FPV Quad fully equipped for FPV-Video below.Again to me this will not be the best flyer around to carry heavy loads, having said that have not flown one yet, but I hate to do fpv with a app on my mobile as live in Aussie and the sunlight just kills the view on a mobile.

True fpv is with goggles like Fatshark, also noted Hobbyking has a Mobius docking station I have ordered to test on my planes quads and cars.

link here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobby.....aff=348003

Sure you need a Mobius Camera but they are far giving Gopro a run for their money at a fraction of the cost.

3 bladed props might help but hard to balance hence bad videos...Hey not trying to stop you mod the X5C but consider your time and cash.

Ali video below on X5SW. Take care and keep us posted of your mods.

Every one has different ideas.

"Fly like a butterfly sting like a Syma" http://syma107.com

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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September 30, 2015 - 12:40 pm
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I think one of the performance issues is caused by lousy motors.  So far two of them have failed with about 1.5 hours flying time on the thing.

I replaced them with used motors from an x5c, but it still will just barely stay airborne with the x5c-1 FPV camera on board.

Syma needs to do something about the failure rate with these motors.

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Redfive
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September 30, 2015 - 3:33 pm

I think the exposed cogs are the problem as they can get clogged on landing on grass but not had a problem with mine.

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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October 1, 2015 - 2:37 pm
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Redfive said
I think the exposed cogs are the problem as they can get clogged on landing on grass but not had a problem with mine.

I have not noted any foreign material in the cogs.  I seldom touch the grass anyway.  I have 1.5 acres in the back yard I fly over all the time, but the landings are 95% on the patio.

What has happened to two of the motors is they just got weaker and weaker, then just stopped spinning around.

Some mudder motors with brass gears arrived today.  I'll test them out tomorrow.

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Redfive
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October 1, 2015 - 2:40 pm

As you have said it has to be the motors, I hope your replacement ones work better.

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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October 3, 2015 - 1:04 am
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Redfive said
As you have said it has to be the motors, I hope your replacement ones work better.

I replaced the stock motors with mudder motors.  Since they have brass gears on the output shafts, I lightly applied some synthetic grease to hopefully add to the longevity of the nylon driven gears.

These motors have noticeably more power.  The x5c-1 can now lift the FPV camera easily.  The duration per battery is about half a minute to a minute shorter, so apparently these mudder motors use more amps to make the extra power. 

These motors don't turn the x5c-1 into a racing quad, but they do increase the payload some.

I've got the "open up the drone, remove the motors, solder in the new motors, close it up, and screw it back together" procedure pretty well ironed out now.  I can see why there are so many of these drones for sale on craigslist for $20.  Most folks don't have the knowledge, patience, or skill to do this kind of maintenance.  Had I known the quality was so low on this brand of drone, I would have sought out something better,.. something that would fly for maybe 20 or 30 hours with no parts needing replacement.

Here's another idea.  For Amazon Prime members, it is REALLY easy to return a product for exchange or refund. 
 -- You could order 2 x5c-1 drones and start flying one. 
 -- Then in a few hours of flying time, something will fail and it will be unflyable. 
 -- Mail it back to Amazon right away.  UPS Shipping is free for Amazon Prime members. 
 -- Start flying the second x5c-1 while the first x5c-1 is on its way via UPS to Amazon. 
 -- Hopefully, Amazon will ship the replacement back to you before your second x5c-1 fails and you have to UPS it back for an exchange. 
 -- Repeat as necessary.
 -- It takes a lot less time to repack the x5c-1 in its box to UPS it back for a refund or exchange than it does to accomplish the "open up the drone, remove the motors, solder in the new motors, close it up, and screw it back together" procedure.

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Redfive
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October 3, 2015 - 3:15 am

Interesting idea but my personal experience with the x5c is that it performs well and hasn't broken in the time I have owned it. I hope your uprated one now behaves it's self for you.

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MikeK
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October 3, 2015 - 7:10 am
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Syma Freak said
Hi Gyrobob,

Not trying to be negative here but have built a few quads now, you can not make a simple quad with brushed motors to expect to carry lots of weight, you would be better off thinking about a quad that has brushless motors, bigger battery power, to me works out cheaper and less time spent trying to mod a simple quad to be a machine-again I have done that.

There is in the Syma range the X5SW FPV Quad fully equipped for FPV-Video below.Again to me this will not be the best flyer around to carry heavy loads, having said that have not flown one yet, but I hate to do fpv with a app on my mobile as live in Aussie and the sunlight just kills the view on a mobile.

True fpv is with goggles like Fatshark, also noted Hobbyking has a Mobius docking station I have ordered to test on my planes quads and cars.

link here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobby.....aff=348003

Sure you need a Mobius Camera but they are far giving Gopro a run for their money at a fraction of the cost.

3 bladed props might help but hard to balance hence bad videos...Hey not trying to stop you mod the X5C but consider your time and cash.

Ali video below on X5SW. Take care and keep us posted of your mods.

Every one has different ideas.

Thanks for that info, S F.  Every little bit helps.

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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October 3, 2015 - 8:33 am
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Redfive said
Interesting idea but my personal experience with the x5c is that it performs well and hasn't broken in the time I have owned it. I hope your uprated one now behaves it's self for you.

My personal experience is just the opposite.  They do perform well, but the motors are crap.  I have had experience with three of these drones:
 -- An x5c labeled as an Aerodrone.  It truly is an x5c but with a different name.  When I took it apart, it showed Syma.  One of its motors failed.  I replaced the motor and then that day I lost the drone in a tree!!  It is still there.  I'm waiting for the enough leaves to fall off the trees so I can see it and maybe do something about getting it back.
 -- An x5c I bought from a kid for $20.  He was selling it so cheaply because one of the motors had failed.
 -- The x5c-1 I bought from Amazon several weeks ago.  It has had TWO motors fail.  This is the one in which I installed the more powerful mudder motors yesterday.

Those reviews on youtube are nice, but they never put enough time on the drones to find out if they last more than an hour or so.

The MTBF on these motors appears to be about 45 minutes.

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MikeK
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October 3, 2015 - 9:06 am
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GyroBob,

A motor in my x5c failed after three flights on the day I received it.  I emailed the vendor who immediately shipped a replacement without needing a return of the defective unit.  

While waiting for the replacement I ordered a $20 backup x5c (minus camera and controller) and I ordered a set of motors from a U.S. based vendor.  The motors arrived in a few days and I was able to successfully repair the original x5c, which I call Number One.  And Number One has flown perfectly every day for more than six months -- until last week when I clumsily flew it onto a branch of a pine tree about 40' high.  So I've been flying the replacement x5c (Number Two) each day. often looking up at Number One lodged in the tree.  

We've had a lot of rain here in New Jersey in the past week.  Today (10/2/15), we are experiencing the edge of Hurricane "Joaquin" with 25 - 40 mph winds.  This morning I looked and there was Number One lying peacefully atop a 3' bush.

After exposure to all that rain one wouldn't expect a quad to be salvageable.  But after fifteen minutes with a soft cloth, a paint-brush, a pipe-cleaner and a hair dryer I am very pleased to report Number One is flying again, just as nicely as ever.  

So I've put Number Two back on the shelf next to the $20 backup (Number Three).  And the bottom line is after what Number One has been through to still be flying speaks volumes for Syma quality.  

While I'm hoping nothing more serious comes from the Hurricane I'd like to thank "Joaquin" for the help.   

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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October 3, 2015 - 9:43 am
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MikeK said
GyroBob, ...    
 
And the bottom line is after what Number One has been through to still be flying speaks volumes for Syma quality.   

I'd sure like to find some of that "Syma quality."

The Syma motors I've used have a failure rate of about 25%,.. which means 100% failure for the drone about every hour of flight time.

Maybe if I bought the Syma stuff from where you buy yours, I'd have better luck.  Maybe Amazon gets Syma-ish products, rather than real Syma stuff. 

Who knows?  I'm looking forward to the day when I feel good enough piloting these things to put all my Syma stuff on craigslists and buy a DJI Phantom 3 or something similar.  Maybe their motors last a reasonable length of time.

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MikeK
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October 3, 2015 - 1:15 pm
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Gyrobob said

MikeK said
GyroBob, ...    
 
And the bottom line is after what Number One has been through to still be flying speaks volumes for Syma quality.   

I'd sure like to find some of that "Syma quality."

The Syma motors I've used have a failure rate of about 25%,.. which means 100% failure for the drone about every hour of flight time.

Maybe if I bought the Syma stuff from where you buy yours, I'd have better luck.  Maybe Amazon gets Syma-ish products, rather than real Syma stuff. 

Who knows?  I'm looking forward to the day when I feel good enough piloting these things to put all my Syma stuff on craigslists and buy a DJI Phantom 3 or something similar.  Maybe their motors last a reasonable length of time.

GyroBob,

It's really too bad you've had all that trouble with your Syma products.  But it will be constructive to find out whether you've just had bad luck or if these failures are a consistent reflection of Syma quality.

As previously mentioned, a motor in my first x5c failed a few hours after I received it.  But prior to that I'd been very satisfied with the durable performance of my Syma S-107 and S-26 (Chinook), and I'd heard nothing but glowing praise from others who fly Syma birds.  So rather than just toss the failed x5c I ordered some motors and decided to delve more deeply into the hobby, because changing batteries and motors, etc., such minor repairs and maintenance tasks seem to be an essential part of this hobby.  After all, in view of the relatively inexpensive prices of these little r/c quads there are bound to be a predictable percentage of failures in the mass-produced nano-components. (These tiny motors are amazing to me.)  

While I've had to change the battery in my S-107 twice, that's only because I flew it a lot and its battery is not rechargeable.  But I've bounced that little bird off walls, ceilings and furniture for many months and although it's been superseded by the x5c it still flies as good as the day I got it.  

I didn't fly the S-26 (Chinook) as much as the S-107 and although it's not as easy to control as the 107, and it's been banged around a lot, it has remained mechanically and electrically as sound as Day One.  

Having changed the defective motor in the brand-new x5c, after more than six months of flying it almost every day, which includes quite a few serious crashes, this bird has just spent a week perched in a tree during two full days of heavy rain.  Today it fell about forty feet onto a bush but it is physically intact and after being cleaned up and blow-dried it still flies as good as new.  The only negative is the battery won't take a charge.  

So rather than limit this exchange to a comparison of your experience vs mine, let's hear from other Syma pilots.  

Mike

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Redfive
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October 4, 2015 - 4:43 am

I have had other makes but decided that a syma always meant quality. I am surprised that you have had such a poor experience as fortunately I have only known good ones. I have had over 20 syma products with only batteries failing apart from early broken rotors from bad piloting.

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Gyrobob
Atlanta, Georgia, US
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October 4, 2015 - 1:21 pm
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Redfive said
I have had other makes but decided that a syma always meant quality. I am surprised that you have had such a poor experience as fortunately I have only known good ones. I have had over 20 syma products with only batteries failing apart from early broken rotors from bad piloting.

I am researching my next dronage step up.  I read through several reviews on the Syma X8.  Several of those guys had motors go out as well.

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MikeK
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October 5, 2015 - 9:31 am
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GyroBob,

Having reviewed some of the recent messages and given more thought to the problems you and others, including me, have experienced it's pretty clear that the little motors in our helicopters are subject to predictable mass-production defects.  As mentioned previously, my first x5c performed perfectly for three five-minute flights on the day I received it.  On the fourth take-off one of the motors failed.  But I replaced the motor and that bird has been flying and enduring many crashes since then -- which has been more than six months.  And that includes more than a week in a tree being drenched by rain.  

The obvious conclusion is any serious drone hobbyist should be prepared to make minor repairs, outstandingly including motor and rotor replacements -- and batteries in little birds like the S-107.  That obviously is why replacement parts are so readily available.

These mini-copters are a relatively new industry.  Mass-production methods have not advanced to the near-zero defect level.  For a producer to subject every little motor to a one or two hour endjurance test to root out the defectives would substantially increase the cost of each bird.  

So the remaining question is are Syma's birds the only ones with occasional motor failures?  I don't think so.  Until the mass-production methods for these little motors are perfected the need for occasional replacement will continue.

Mike

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JamDJ
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October 5, 2015 - 4:08 pm
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OK, let me get this straight, we are 3 for 4, or is that 4 for 4 on successful recoveries, right?

The ones that flew out to sea or flew into oblivion and can't be recovered, we need to recognise

as part of the hobby. I am impressed, however at what you guys are doing to make the recoverable

ones fly again. My S32 was a lost cause 2 years ago, and just now needs a new battery. Bottom line is

to keep these comments coming in, positive or negative. Remeber Syma does follow this forum and 

everything we put on here is known to them.

MikeK, I didn't know we are somewhat neighbors as the effects of hurricane Joaquin were felt here too

in the form of rain and wind, mostly by a weak nor'easter preceding the storm. Therefore outdoor flying

to try out my new S6C hasn't happened much in the past week. Follow up note: The hurricane is

turning away from the US mainland, and hopefully no major issues as it continues to weaken.

Finally, I have asked this before, can anyone please tell me how to get rid of double spacing? 

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GatesGall
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December 3, 2015 - 3:47 am

As per my experience you can not make a simple quad with brushed motors to expect to carry lots of weight, you would be better off thinking about a quad that has brushless motors, bigger battery power, to me works out cheaper and less time spent trying to mod a simple quad to be a machine-again.

Also there is in the Syma range the X5SW FPV Quad fully equipped for FPV-Video below.Again to me this will not be the best flyer around to carry heavy loads, having said that have not flown one yet, but I hate to do fpv with a app on my mobile as live in Aussie and the sunlight just kills the view on a mobile.

The following users say thank you to GatesGall for this useful post:

Syma Freak
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Gyrobob
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December 15, 2015 - 4:15 am
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GatesGall said
As per my experience you can not make a simple quad with brushed motors to expect to carry lots of weight, you would be better off thinking about a quad that has brushless motors, bigger battery power, to me works out cheaper and less time spent trying to mod a simple quad to be a machine-again.

Also there is in the Syma range the X5SW FPV Quad fully equipped for FPV-Video below.Again to me this will not be the best flyer around to carry heavy loads, having said that have not flown one yet, but I hate to do fpv with a app on my mobile as live in Aussie and the sunlight just kills the view on a mobile.

I agree.  These simple quads with brushed motors are not designed to carry lots of weight.  That is why I never put a lot of weight on any one of these quads.  I fly (flew) them absolutely stock, or with the Syma x5c FPV kit installed which adds about 2 grams to the overall weight.  The stock camera weighs 5 grams, the FPV camera weighs 7 grams.  2 grams diff!  That is less than a tenth of an ounce.

Yes, it is true that if I wanted to carry lots of weight I should get something with brushless motors.  I am not trying to carry lots of weight.  The Syma FPV camera adds less than 1% to the overall weight of the drone.  2 grams.  Insignificant.

The problem is the motors.  Amazon charges a little over a buck for replacement motors.  There is no way to get long-term use out of a motor that cheap.  It is understandable, though,... these are toys, not professional pieces of equipment.  It would just be nice if there was some way to get a few hours out of each motor.

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