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Power Bursts
Tags: Syma X9
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CPD
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February 4, 2012 - 10:43 am
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I'm not the one looking for advice usually, but this is where my heli's starting to get old. My Hybrid half-fake, half-real s107's starting to get tired.

 

Last week, I plugged my S107 into the 102's charger cord just for random fun, (it's the thing where it's polar different and  the rotors spin backwards) and noticed that it gave a burst of fast energy to the rotors. I'm not sure if it's related to the main issue, though.

 

I was flying it, and the battery's low from not flying in a week, but here's the big part. I thought the battery was dying, but when I was on the ground to end the flight, it had the same burst, and it shot the heli into the air. One motor's also starting to make a little noise, so I think the remaining fake motor's starting to go too.

 

Nothing is broken now,(except one missing dogbone) but it's starting to go. I just wanted to seek advice on the one discrepancy that I cannot figure out. Is the battery dying and giving the burst, or is it the motherboard going nuts-so and spazzing out and putting out the burst?

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Freeonthree
Red Bluff, california
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February 4, 2012 - 11:11 am
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Yikes !  First time i've heard of that, but I have to wonder if like you say, you have a motor going out. If the power loss occured before the 6 minute mark, i'd guess the motor is failing in the brush/armature area. I think it's easy to overheat these tiny motors and either cook the varnish on the armature windings, and also take the temper out of the brush springs.

I try to break my flights into two, and let the motors and battery cool for a about 5 minutes or more. At least it make me feel better when I remember to do it. Problem is, 8 minutes of flying feels more like 4. 

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CPD
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February 4, 2012 - 12:31 pm
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I don't think it's the motor, since it doesn't seem like it's just one motor getting the burst. I'm going to fly again in a few to double check.

 

It's not that it's loosing the power as much as it is suddenly regaining that I'm worried about. The burst could kill the engines or the mb, if it isn't the motherboard already.

 

I need to also make sure it wasn't something from the fact that I was outside or the remote has dead-ish batteries in it.

 

Either way, I lost a dogbone, and it's getting old and abused. These things aren't meant to last forever without something being replaced.

 

Now, if only I could convince my dad whenever it does break to let me solder it... but he probably won't let me because "i'll end up some electronics solder stoner junkie kid" or something where I hack everything electronic and really screw up my life or some bull crap.

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Freeonthree
Red Bluff, california
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February 4, 2012 - 12:51 pm
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That last paragraph almost made my milk come out my nose.

Ok, so both motors got the burst. Hmmm...

Remove the canopy and check the heavy wires, since it affected both motors. Sounds like tx batts or bad connection. If the batts have 10 or more days on them, it's probably that. Mine are down to 1.357 at the 10 day mark, and last night my yellow one got a second wind once to think about it. I figured I got too close to the lamp. Hmmm...

I think were on to something here...  The S107G would never do anything silly on purpose, their perfect !  Wink 

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Freeonthree
Red Bluff, california
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February 4, 2012 - 1:08 pm
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Yikes, they were down to 1.25 with the tx on.

I just installed new one's, and now it's over 1.6 under load (tx on).

Time for a test flight  :>)

Basically, when 1.5 volt batts get down to 1.5 Volts, their done for use in anything serious, just like out 6 volt RC packs in the planes and heli's.  When they get down to 6.0, it's recharge time.  I think we may have solved your delema. Im sure crossing my fingers, and my eye's. lol  Put your hand on the speaker, and repeat after me...  I hope thats it, I hope thats it....  Cool

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CPD
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February 4, 2012 - 1:08 pm
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Hmmm... just flew it, and it didn't have any bursts. Hmmm...

I'll need to look over it at some point.

 

Anybody else have this symptom?

 

(also, had some bad vibrations at the begining, but probably from the dogbone)

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Troop-107G
Toowoomba, Australia
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February 4, 2012 - 6:42 pm
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My 105G after many flights was doing this. It felt like it was running out of battery early into the flight, than it would come alive again in bursts. I thought the same as you, with M/B or battery being the problem.
 
I found that the rear motor was extremely hot compared to the front. A hot motor draws power and the m/b is confused is my only conclusion at this stage. I'm waiting for a new motor to test out my theory.

In the mean time, take the canopy off your model. Hold the copter and run it for two minutes or so and checkout the motor for any big difference in motor temps. lets us know how that  goes.

Me no how, Me no tell. Me push buttons, goes like hell..!

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Freeonthree
Red Bluff, california
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February 4, 2012 - 6:55 pm
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Did you check the tx batts, under load (tx on) even better. I flew Yellow with the new tx batts, and didn't experience any glitches, so I dunno…  I wish they would put some kind of battery level warning device on these tx's, a meter, led's or something.  Also, im going to buy a set of Duracells, and give those a try, see how thier voltage holds up compared to the cheapies from the Dollar Store.  Hey, I got 5 sets of 12 AA's for 5 bucks !  I couldn't resist Surprised

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Troop-107G
Toowoomba, Australia
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February 4, 2012 - 7:14 pm
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Freeonthree said:

Did you check the tx batts, under load (tx on) even better. I flew Yellow with the new tx batts, and didn't experience any glitches, so I dunno…  I wish they would put some kind of battery level warning device on these tx's, a meter, led's or something.  Also, im going to buy a set of Duracells, and give those a try, see how thier voltage holds up compared to the cheapies from the Dollar Store.  Hey, I got 5 sets of 12 AA's for 5 bucks !  I couldn't resist Surprised

My 107 had just arrived when this problem was going on with the 105, so I used the new TX and batts. Channel changes etc, the 105 still played up. Still suspect hot motor draw..?

Me no how, Me no tell. Me push buttons, goes like hell..!

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drewdane
Rockford, IL
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February 4, 2012 - 10:01 pm
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Freeonthree said:

...The S107G would never do anything silly on purpose, their perfect !  Wink 

It is half-fake. Wink

 -Drew

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CPD
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February 5, 2012 - 2:03 am
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You guys are a little too new to know the whole back story on the hybrid 107 (s107h or h107g?)

 

It was a fake heli, one motor burned out, somebody returned it, it was rebuilt with a real motor, battery, (I think) canopy, and blades, (and possably other parts) then was packed up and sold on amazon to me. It's a great heli, very durable, has a few minor issues like sliding, and some minor tbe that comes and goes, but it's a fun heli. Not the smooth glider like the 102, not the speed demon like my speed-demon modded 107.

 

It was odd that it only did it on one flight. I've charged the AA batteries, so if that's the issue, it won't come back.

(the speed one has a thin plastic lower frame, the skids weren't any good because the originals were on the hybrid and these ones were trashed, so they're just the plastic frames, and a spare tail rotor from the hybrid, with the flipped tail motor--the speed rotor made it too fast and too uncontrolable, so I put on the fake one w reversed pitch because it was a little faster than stock and easier than re-flipping the tail)

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CPD
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February 5, 2012 - 8:37 am
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Update: I've noticed a few times today that my 102 has cut out power toward the end of the flight, and regained it. This isn't related to the issue of bursts, but the one time, while I was burning off the battery, I noticed a slight burst.

 

Now, the disgruntling thing is that there is now a constant grind, except while turning, undoubtably from a motor or gear. The gears in both the yellow and red also seem to be binding up. This isn't a suprise- the yellow's getting old, and the red's speedmoded and uncontrolable, and crashes an average of at least once every one minute of flight.

 

I think it may be time to buy a blue and start limiting the duties of the yellow one and start saving on the red one. (semi retire-servicable the yellow one)

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gjkozy
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April 5, 2012 - 1:34 pm
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I have a S107G that is two days old, at first it flew fine but near the end of the 1st. day while trying to maintain a constant altitude there would be a burst of power and it would cause to Helli to hit the ceiling. It appears to be in the remote, while moving the stick forward giving it power to reach the desired height it would surge, I would then back off the stick to counter this and then gently push forward and the same thing would happen again.

There used to be a sweet spot on the controller where if you hold it in that position the Helli remains at a given altitude, the sweet spot seems to be gone, its like my controller has become too sensitive in a certain spot (approx. half throttle). Batteries on remote are good.

 

Has anyone experience this problem?

The things that I will look at will be, when parts come in are,

1. Battery on Helli

2. Controller board on Helli.

I have another Helli on the way and when it arrives I will try the remote on that to determine if the problem is in the Helli or remote.

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CPD
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April 7, 2012 - 12:16 am
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Don't worry, that's just the progression of things-the heli will never have the exact same sweet spot, even within the same flight. You just need to get used to finding it.

 

I have it easy-I just ripped out the throttle springs in the remotes with a multi-tool. (well, 2 of them-the 1st one, I just let it go in, then had to rip half of it apart and break the connections and do some really bad stuff to it to get the spring back out because it interupted the connection)

 

As the battery ages, you'll have a bit harder of a time finding the exact sweet spot, and as you go along in the flight, you'll have higher and higher sweet spots as it drains.

 

It's not broke, it's just a learning curve.

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gjkozy
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April 10, 2012 - 12:19 pm
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My second s107 arrived the other day, tried the remote and the heli fly's great. I noticed that on the the remote with the problem, that if I put side pressure towards the left while operating it, the heli fly's without a problem. I appears that the variable resistor pot that senses the throttle position is the problem.

I also replaced the throttle return spring with a lighter spring and it works great with a great feel, and it returns to off when I let go, so I don't have to remember to place it in zero position when it crashes. Next move is to see what I can replace the throttle pot with. Have to determine the value and case size and see if can be replaced.

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Symaniac
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January 22, 2013 - 5:41 pm
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Sorry to bump this old thread, but I've noticed that my S107G has also developed the "surge" problem.  It's usually after a fresh USB charge that it does this.  The motors are cool, and it is the first flight of the day.  For the first few take offs it's really difficult to control as all of a sudden the helicopter will take off as if on full throttle.  It's hard to compensate by cutting power as then it drops rapidly.  After the first 30-40 seconds of this the flight behavior it then returns to normal.

I have Eneloops in the transmitter, but I'll try charging them up if that's the cause.  I don't know why the problem is self-rectifying after the first intial moments of flight time.  My Syma is about 3 weeks old, and I usually do one 6.5 minute flight a day.  I unplug the copter after the USB light comes on steady bright.  Maybe my LiPO battery has a strange discharge pattern where it gives off some voltage spikes in the beginning?

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CPD
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January 23, 2013 - 2:18 am
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I don't think the transmitter is what causes this problem, I think as the batteries get a little old, they start to burst a little and drop at some points. I'm not sure how to remedy the problem. I know there's some electronic part that will normalize the voltage by eliminating the spikes, but I forget what part it is. I want to say bridge rectifiers but I just don't remember anymore.

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Symaniac
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January 24, 2013 - 7:17 pm
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Yeah, the freshly charged eneloops in the transmitter didn't seem to make much difference.  At first flight the engines seem to randomly rev up just like a motorbike, but at least I'm getting used to cutting power when that happens just enough so that it doesn't hit the ground.  It's a little bit of a wild ride especially when I'm trying to simulate a real world flight from take off to landing as I'm sure my passengers onboard would be puking their plastic guts out going so rapidly up and down, but after a bit it settles down into normal flight.

Maybe the voltage accuracy of my LiPo is not that great as I wonder if it's getting overcharged and giving off higher voltage that the motherboard isn't able to regulate or something.  I know I've bought a few electronics made in China that weren't as accurate as claimed when measured on the volt meter.

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zedorda
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January 25, 2013 - 1:42 am
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I wouldn't run rechargeable batteries in your transmitter since it is not rated to be able to run at such low voltages and can cause damage. Take note that rechargeable AA batteries only produce 1.2v where as an Alkaline non-rechargeable produces 1.5v and since the transmitter has the batteries in a series circuit it compounds the problem into a 1.8v reduction. If you ever used your transmitter to recharge you heli with those rechargeable AAs in it may also have caused other issues.

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CPD
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January 25, 2013 - 4:56 am
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Yeah, I run rechargables in my remotes, but I never charge from it. I don't reccomend charing with the remote unless you're nowhere close to a computer. (like at a friend/relative's house or something like that)

 Personally, I prefer to run rechargables in anything I can, since they're so much cheaper in the long run, and if you're not charging with the remote that often (one or two times every few months) then it'll be fine.

 

*Another note: when buying rechargable batteries, make sure to buy ones made in Japan. As I understand it, there's two main factories making ALL name-brand rechargable batteries, one in China that makes garbage and one in Japan that makes great batteries.

 Get Enyloops (the best) if you can afford them, and I get pre-charged energizers made in Japan off of Walmart when I need them fairly soon.

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