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Motors Twisting in Chassis
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sevendy
Hartford, CT, USA
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November 3, 2012 - 3:23 am
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I'm new to this hobby, so I do a lot of crashing, but I'm not sure this is crash-related.  I noticed that one wire on each of the main motors was rubbing against the small metal tab that holds the motor to the chassis. Under closer inspection, it was clear that the insulation on one wire had been sheared through by the edge of the tab. I thought at first that this was a manufacturing defect, so I carefully twisted the motors in their mounts to eliminated the contact, but after a few more flights and crashes, the wires were up against the tabs once again! A little glue under the tabs failed to hold the motors in place, so I tried even more glue: to the chassis, the to side plates, plus I crimped the hold-down tabs hard against the tops of the motors.  This has worked, so far; so, in a sense, problem solved.

 

Has any one else had this problem? Does anyone have a more elegant solution? Is the shock of the rotors hitting something over-torquing the motor mounts, or is this the result of normal operation?

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voodoo
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November 4, 2012 - 6:11 am
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Welcome to the forum!

The motors don't really have 'motor mounts' to speak of, being held in place from a 'torque' perspective just by being inserted into circular depressions in the so called 'corpus', which is the large black upper frame between the metal side plates.  Just a friction fit from what I've found.  The little tabs as far as I can see basically stop them from 'climbing out' of the circular mounts vertically.  I've wondered if my motors would eventually begin to rotate but so far so good. Having now burned out two motors on different heli's, I would be wary of gluing them in place unless I could easily get them to release from the glue.  That is if you feel comfortable resoldering motor wires.

Possibly some very thin tape wrapped around the motor might tighten them up in the mounting cylinders.  

Cheers

Oh... and stop crashing!!!  :-)

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sevendy
Hartford, CT, USA
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November 4, 2012 - 9:24 am
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I've got to say that I'm really surprised that people are doing major surgery on these things, considering that they can be replaced for $20. For all the crashes I've endured, the only other damage so far has been nicks to the main rotor blade leading edges. (This isn't entirely true: the tail fin got bent after one of the two times it fell 25 feet out of the tree it got stuck in. Does anyone know what the altitude record is?)

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bvc
Houston, Texas
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November 4, 2012 - 3:35 pm
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I use a little Teflon tape to keep them from turning (and popping out since I removed the inner side plate [that holds them down] to reduce the weight).

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sevendy
Hartford, CT, USA
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November 5, 2012 - 11:56 am
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Well, for one reason or another, the front motor is terminally ill, and, thanks to all the glue, not replaceable.

Total lifetime for the device: eight days.

 

Thanks for your comments. Time to move on to something else.

 

Bye, Bye.

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Syma Freak
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November 5, 2012 - 4:28 pm
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Understand you might not be happy but you have had some crashes and gluing helis is not the best outcome..I fly planes as well some foam and balsa,crashing at the field and glue has dropped into servos and created huge drama..do not give up on these helis..all rc products need constant tlc,that is part of the rc hobby,as a entry point into rc helis for $20 odd dollars they are cheap--I have helis costing $1000,and still crash the hell out of them...any help we can give you to get flying again let us know..SF

"Fly like a butterfly sting like a Syma" http://syma107.com

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voodoo
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November 5, 2012 - 10:31 pm
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sevendy said
I've got to say that I'm really surprised that people are doing major surgery on these things, considering that they can be replaced for $20. For all the crashes I've endured, the only other damage so far has been nicks to the main rotor blade leading edges. (This isn't entirely true: the tail fin got bent after one of the two times it fell 25 feet out of the tree it got stuck in. Does anyone know what the altitude record is?)

Crash damage has never been an issue for my 'fleet'  I just fly the darned things so much that I'm wearing things out!  The only 'damage' I have to fix is a free 'demo' I was given for parts.. that apart from chipped blades and a slightly bent shaft, flies great!

Seems a waste to throw away something that can be fixed even if it is only $20. and in most cases that doens't include the price of shipping... and most 'enthusiasts' can't find them locally at that price. 

PS... Modelzone has them on sale for £15... £10 each if you buy three!.... so... I bought six.  :-)  

Yes... buyng spare parts can be a wee bit more expensive, but if you start cannibalizing some heli's to repair others.. it can be quite satisfying to work on these little heli's.  And as a modeler...as well as a 'pilot'... that is a very rewarding aspect of the hobby for me.

Others enjoyment may vary! :-)

Oh.... After the first time... I think I would have stayed clear of the tree!!!!!Wink

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sevendy
Hartford, CT, USA
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November 7, 2012 - 1:27 am
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I did manage to get the motor free of all the glue.

I disassembled the defective motor, an experience alone worth the price of the helicopter. It appears that the brushes lost contact with the commutator, which was deeply worn. There was also visible debris on the static and rotating parts, but no obvious shorts across the commutator slots. The brushes are just tiny three-fingered metal leaves, mounted directly on the underside of the plastic top cap. The glue holding the brushes to the cap was of a quantity and location so as to unnecessarily reduce the flexibility of the leaves. The result, in my technical opinion (yeah--not worth much), was excessive force on the commutator and reduced range of motion for the brushes. Additionally, there appears (there's that word again!) to be significant run-out of the commutator--which is cantilevered off the end of the armature (there is no upper bearing)--exacerbating the brush contact problem.

 

I'm considering going bigger and brushless.

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Syma Freak
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November 8, 2012 - 12:12 am
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Well there you go..you have learnt a lot in the last few days..keep us posted on your new ventures into brushless motors

"Fly like a butterfly sting like a Syma" http://syma107.com

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Syma Freak
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November 8, 2012 - 12:15 am
Member Since: November 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 1459
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voodoo said

sevendy said
I've got to say that I'm really surprised that people are doing major surgery on these things, considering that they can be replaced for $20. For all the crashes I've endured, the only other damage so far has been nicks to the main rotor blade leading edges. (This isn't entirely true: the tail fin got bent after one of the two times it fell 25 feet out of the tree it got stuck in. Does anyone know what the altitude record is?)

Crash damage has never been an issue for my 'fleet'  I just fly the darned things so much that I'm wearing things out!  The only 'damage' I have to fix is a free 'demo' I was given for parts.. that apart from chipped blades and a slightly bent shaft, flies great!

Seems a waste to throw away something that can be fixed even if it is only $20. and in most cases that doens't include the price of shipping... and most 'enthusiasts' can't find them locally at that price. 

PS... Modelzone has them on sale for £15... £10 each if you buy three!.... so... I bought six.  :-)  

Yes... buyng spare parts can be a wee bit more expensive, but if you start cannibalizing some heli's to repair others.. it can be quite satisfying to work on these little heli's.  And as a modeler...as well as a 'pilot'... that is a very rewarding aspect of the hobby for me.

Others enjoyment may vary! :-)

Oh.... After the first time... I think I would have stayed clear of the tree!!!!!Wink

Great post and advice Voodoo..helps many for repairing their Syma,,,,

"Fly like a butterfly sting like a Syma" http://syma107.com

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sevendy
Hartford, CT, USA
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November 27, 2012 - 8:37 am
Member Since: November 3, 2012
Forum Posts: 6
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Well, I ordered a pair of replacement motors from Focalprice. Both motors in the package had black top caps, but the wire pairs were colored differently. Since they weren't marked, I assumed that the one with the matching red and blue wires replaced the defective front ("A"?) motor. The S107 flew fine--for a day and a half. I dissected the replacement motor: one brush had cracked through, probably a fatigue failure, as the wear pattern on the commutator was highly eccentric. Curiously, the brushes and the armature windings were reversed relative to the original motor, making me wonder if this really was the right motor. Overall quality was hard to judge, but the armature windings were irregular, and the commutator wear rate appeared to be higher. Having nothing to lose, I put the other motor--the one with the white and black wires--in the front location; so far, so good, but the S107 now needs more yaw trim than with the first two motors. Also, sometime the motors cut out when first started, a symptom the others displayed just before failure.

I guess I would avoid the aftermarket motors. But they haven't twisted in the mount!

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CPD
PA
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November 27, 2012 - 10:38 am
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Wow, that's some serious bad luck with that heli... By this point, I'd call it cursed, buy a new one and use it as a paperweight! Guess there's nothing going right for it...

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leadsled
Austin, TX
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December 19, 2012 - 5:56 pm
Member Since: November 6, 2012
Forum Posts: 30
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sevendy said
Well, I ordered a pair of replacement motors from Focalprice. Both motors in the package had black top caps, but the wire pairs were colored differently. Since they weren't marked, I assumed that the one with the matching red and blue wires replaced the defective front ("A"?) motor. The S107 flew fine--for a day and a half. I dissected the replacement motor: one brush had cracked through, probably a fatigue failure, as the wear pattern on the commutator was highly eccentric. Curiously, the brushes and the armature windings were reversed relative to the original motor, making me wonder if this really was the right motor. Overall quality was hard to judge, but the armature windings were irregular, and the commutator wear rate appeared to be higher. Having nothing to lose, I put the other motor--the one with the white and black wires--in the front location; so far, so good, but the S107 now needs more yaw trim than with the first two motors. Also, sometime the motors cut out when first started, a symptom the others displayed just before failure.

I guess I would avoid the aftermarket motors. But they haven't twisted in the mount!

I'm relatively new to the hobby, about the same time as you.  From many hours of OCDing, I have learned you cannot run the batteries down to failure.  This hurts not only the battery but the motors as well.  Even with replaceable batteries, helicopters need to be cooled down before fllying again and a strict time limit in the air.  I read 5-6 minutes max for prolonged battery and motor life.

 

I have 4 different Symas now and am hooked.  Once I get really good with the S800G I'm looking to take the plunge into CP helis.

Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

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bvc
Houston, Texas
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December 23, 2012 - 5:36 am
Member Since: January 2, 2012
Forum Posts: 250
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Since the cp's you are talking about plunging into are mode2 transmitters, you might want to fly with a 4ch mode2 fp before making a jump to a cp. It's a big jump that will cost you a lot to get started and in repairs. If you do go this route, the least expensive 4ch fp is the wl toys v911. I wish syma had an inexpensive durable 4ch micro fp.

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zedorda
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December 23, 2012 - 4:58 pm
Member Since: December 6, 2012
Forum Posts: 93
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You can switch the remote of the S800G into a mode 2 with just 2 jumper wires and some solder. I am waiting till my 2nd S800G gets here to do it to one of mine.

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bvc
Houston, Texas
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December 23, 2012 - 5:14 pm
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True, and I did that, but the S800 is still nothing like a 100 class single rotor outdoor fp.

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zedorda
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December 23, 2012 - 5:52 pm
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Totally true but atleast that way you don't have to relearn that part of the remote.

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